Question for Bill - folding footpegs ...... why?

[Linegeist]

Bill, you've mentioned several times now that you have an aversion to folding footpegs - and you have shown conversion work where you have fitted solid pegs to your own bikes.

As a biker who has migrated from Triumphs, Nortons, AJS's - et al ....... I always thought it rather nice to have pegs that politely got out of the way when cornering got a bit hairy ....... British bikes would happily dig their pegs into the road and pivot the hapless rider about their centres ...

Now, I've learned from experience that you don't do things without a good reason - and you race your bikes ...... so why your liking for the old solid pegs Bill?

[Bill Jurgenson]

quite simply: they are safer am better under foot.
You will also have noted - and I made a point of stating it - that mine do not stand of as far as OEM pegs.
Modern bikes like the Skorpion do not have a problem with grounding pegs, not like my BSA A7 for instance.
I have never ever grounded a peg on my Skorpions (or the Yamaha) without going down entirely.

Training for SOT event , Lausitzring

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I think you can see that the can will ground before the peg does, and that I have already had to tuck my knee in out off the way.

I did loose the nylon end plug of the Bimota peg once on the Pannonia ring, holding 996s and F4s at bay.

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I made them quite long and probably forced it off with my foot.

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you can see that the 180/55 Super Corsa is used right out to the very edge.

get a load of that diminutive rotor at the back.

[Linegeist]

Hell's teeth Bill! I've seen bigger rotors on model helicopters ........... Presumably it does its job - and rear braking isn't as important to a modern bike as it used to be (or so I gather). Having said that, getting a UK Test Certificate with a rotor that size might be pushing things a bit far over here ... Why so tiny?

So - back to pegs. Thanks for the interesting explanation - I experimented with my own Skorp' and I agree you'd have be pretty manic to try and ground a peg in anger - on either side. However (and please forgive me if I seem a bit thick here) why do modern manufacturers insist on fitting the springy-up things if they're not that much use? They must cost a fortune in production-line-unit terms when a piece of nicely knurled stainless would do just fine (and look better IMO).

This seems one of these weird modern things that I can't quite get my 1960's-programmed head around - like whatever happened to friction stops on throttles, so you could take your right hand off the 'bar (to scratch or wave or pick your nose or whatever took your fancy) without the damned thing snapping shut and causing your passenger to headbutt you in the back of the skull? Every British bike I've ever had, sported a little adjuster that could be set to just keep the throttle open until it was shut off manually. Simple! But no more ........ I've taken to nodding at everything now because I know as soon as I remove my deathgrip from that bloody twistgrip, it's going to be try-to-avoid-sliding-up-the-ruddy-tank-into-the-clocks-and-looking-a-twit time (again).

And spark plug locations - what's with having to remove the tank to whip the plug out? Somebody must have got an award for that idea. I can see why the engine's designers mounted the plug centrally - there's not a lot of room for all those valves - but surely somebody could have recessed the fuel tank slightly so a roadside plug chop would take less than an hour and not require the services of a mobile workshop!

Sorry. Having a bad day. I've just been bitten by a client's ancient computer and I'm hating anything that's not organic by way of revenge.

[netguz]

A couple of years ago a car knocked my Guzzi over a day before its MOT. Luckily it only broke the clutch lever and the footrest. I had a spare lever and managed to bodge the footrest back together, but it wouldn´t fold.

It failed its MOT cuz of having a non-folding footrest.

Seems the UK Gov don´t want us ploughing up their beautifully maintained roads!

[Bill Jurgenson]

Rear brake of the Bimota: it does its job of aligning/steering ont he track and is almost impossible to lock up. So, lek the pegs, safety is the reason.

Folding pegs? AFAIK they are, like left shifting 1st gear up and lots of other nonsense, the result of Naderism (US legislation).
In the EU, there is no rule that pegs have to fold up. Once in a while, I have a dispute with the inspection guy (invariably one that doesn't know beans about bikes - "hugh - right shift? I won't test ride it" or how about, " rear brake doesn't work, the wheel won't lock up." or maybe, " front rotor is kaputt. " about a full-floating cast iron rotor).
Last one was last year: http://cembalobill.blogspot.com/2008/05/german-mot.html if you haven't entertained yourself with that one already.

As for costs, the folding pegs are definitely far cheaper because they are die-cast and don't have to fit anything. Don't as a rule, either. The hinge brackets are stamped. The only "precision" part of the whole is the turned stub on which the pedal turns and that part is common to practically all bikes of a given make and then some. Witness the blacksmithed stuff on the MZ. Precision? As I mentioned elsewhere, the Yamaha brake pedal with bronze bushing fits as well and much better.

Friction stops. Most old racing twist grips have set screw and need it, too. In the days of jumpstarting the race, it was mandatory that the engine stopped when the grip was released. there was no idle set and indeed those racing carbs don't have much allowance for setting an idle. the Bimota has 40mm smooth bores with size 5 idle jets: infinitismally small, just there to plug the hole. Since you could not let go on the twist grip while standing, the set screw was necessary to set an idle in the paddock. Our Laverda has one and so does my Mondial. The Bimota does not and it can be a royal pain since it doesn't run below 3000rpm anyway.

Riding "the way your supposed to" according the the legislators that don't know how means basically plopping down on your ass, leaning back and toddling along at the max 65mph. (sounds like Easy Rider doesn't it? another of those very unfortunate...) Folding pegs don't matter there, that's for sure. They're just a place to put your feet. Running boards would be better. Ain't motorcycling tho. Never was either, except maybe in California and Nevada. They do matter if you are actually actively riding and using the pegs to displace your weight.

So anyway, practically all manufacturers, even Bimota, make hinged pegs because in the US they are mandatory.
Now you take your R6 or Ducati or Gixxer and buy a set of Gilles rearsets with ABE (vehicle authority approval) and mount them and that is entirely legal anywhere in the EU. Probably anywhere in the world outside of the US.

or these


or these from ABM

or these


or these from Lucas


etc etc etc. there are so many available for so many bikes, just not for the Skorpion and also not for the SZR.
Don't any of them fold up, however, and for good reason.

[Linegeist]

Thanks Bill! Succinct as always - and food for considerable thought.

AND bike porn too! Lovely metalwork ....... I'm sure I could fabricate something better than the standard MuZ offering.

Excellent stuff!

[iktank]

concure excellent stuff.

[Linegeist]

You a doctor then?

[iktank]

oh yeh my spelling is terrible. ta for pointing it out, please dont start will marks out of 10 i'm too old for that

[Linegeist]

You and me both! Anyway, I'm far too polite Ian - no offence intended. I just couldn't resist.........

[iktank]

made me laugh, and i noticed my poor spelling again on the last post.
only one other time i have joined a forum that was for my Jeep - faulty ball joints all the time front wheel actually fell off - and some of them on that forum there were soooooooo obnoxious mainly yanks.
You lot are fab and i have noted how polite you all are.
Hope you have good weekend i'm off out on ma triple, fancy bit more grunt this weekend

[Linegeist]

.................i'm off out on ma triple, fancy bit more grunt this weekend

Grunt is it indeed? Thou blasphemous pervert! God intended bikes to have but one lung - not three. Thou art indeed lost!!

Careful you don't do your back in!

[Bill Jurgenson]

were soooooooo obnoxious mainly yanks.

cuts both ways. In the days when I was doing translations for money, (german-english mainly but also vice versa), the really obnoxious ones were the Brits doing so-called peer-review (glorified term for proof-reading) who had nothing better to do than to red-mark all my "american" spellings. Stuff like color or curb to name the most obvious. A couple of them were real stinkers. Needless to day, I did not change the spellings for their sake.

Having taught English to Germans, usingas required both Cambridge and Oxford books for teaching English to foreigners, I have my own opinions on the official present stand of the English Language in England and believe me it is not good. I minored in English and Linguistics at UofM and do know a little bit about the subject.

But, granted, on both sides of the pod the everyday conditon of our language is anything but good. The Yanks, however, have no license on misuse.

and no, I was in no way offended by the aside "Yanks." I can imagine some of them to be very obnoxious indeed. Remember: been there-done it! Guys (and girls) from anywhere with little or no self-esteem always tend to be obnoxious. It is all they have and is self-reflecting. Just shrug it off and feel sorry for them.

a triple can be very exciting, especially one like the early 180º crank Laverda 1200 I occasionally race. A hair-raising sound all its own, so singular, that spectators come from the far side of the paddock to check out if they heard right. (talk about bad english; heard correctly. Right is not an adverb and cannot modify the verb to hear.) And grunt like a tractor; doesn't matter much what gear you in, it just pulls...

[Linegeist]

Interesting observation!

Until fairly recently, my English wife and I lived and worked in France, near Versailles and Paris. We'd regularly spend weekends wandering around one or other of the cities just exploring. As we have several languages between us, we met a whole bunch of fascinating tourists of all sorts of nationalities whom we either bumped into, or who we were able to help out with directions or translations, usually because they overheard us speaking English to each other. A couple of them became firm friends as a result.

It was a sad reflection then that often, when coachloads of English tourists arrived, especially in Versailles, we often switched to French to avoid having to get involved with them and their terrible manners. Similarly, the French folks we knew would also pretend not to understand English for the same reasons.

It was invariably the English who would get impatient waiting to be served, and it was almost always the English who would form loud and rowdy groups in otherwise peaceful restuarants, shouting for the waiters and trying to get away without paying. It was often hugely embarassing and we would often find ourselves apologising to the French folks after the rabble had left.

The English would then refer to the the French as "Rude", "Arrogant" and "Unfriendly". We found the opposite in every case.

It's good to find a forum like this one, and with so many good blokes on it!

[iktank]

Hope I have not offended anyone - should not really have used the term Yanks, bad slang, was after some info from 4x4 forum, lot were quite arogant ....
Anyway point is really nice to see every one is extremely helpfull and polite - I just spoilt that!!! - Americans, Germans, French, which is fab, gona go and be unpolite to my French mate on Facebook now cause I still blame him for me braking my leg in Pau
Once again sorry all for my rubbish terminology