MZ Mastiff rear shock linkage bearings and bushes

[krusty]

Hi everyone, my name is Ste and I own a 2004 MZ Mastiff 660

Absolutely love my MZ, will never get rid of it!!! My friend has a Skorpion Sport and we love nothing more than showing the big boys how its done on country roads.

Today however, I have found myself in a little bit of a sticky situation... I fitted a 20mm jack up kit to my Mastiff and I noticed that I have unbelievable amount of play in the shock linkage bearings and bushes!!!!!
Also where the 'dog bones' attach to the frame has free play in it also
I am surprised that I haven't felt this whilst riding and despite having grease nipples fitted which I throw a shed load of grease in to every 2-3 months, it still needs a full strip and replacement of parts!

Anyway I am having an absolute nightmare trying to source somewhere that can supply the bearings, seals and bushes to repair it... obviously they will be the same as the Baghira but not too sure about the Skorpion?

Can anyone help me out and point me in the right direction for the parts I need???

Thanks in advance

[edfmaniac]

This place usually carries lots of new original equipment and replacement parts. It's where I bought parts for my Skorpion fork rebuild.

http://www.grahamsmotorcycles.com/web/BAGHIRA_MENU.htm

The bearings should be readily available in many places. Just pull them out and look at the bearing numbers, then do a search on Google or Ebay.

[krusty]

Thanks edfmaniac, I will give them a call today.
In fairness I don't have the space to strip my Mastiff and leave it why I measure the bearings, seals and bushes as I have a 750 SRAD, ZX9-R and a CBR900RR FireBlade build taking up all the space in my garage

So I was hoping to buy the parts needed then spend an hour or 2 doing the job and getting it back on its wheels asap

[krusty]

Think I'm going to faint!
£115.46 + p&p for a few needle roller bearings, seals and bushes!

Best run this by the missus before I order it... I'm already in the dog house for the amount I've spent on my FireBlade over the last few weeks

[DAVID THOMPSON]

when buying parts for any thing .. it is best to keep a tight grip on the pictures of the QUEEN in your pocket

even the shipping costs are getting to be a problem

seems like every time i go parts shopping here in my home town a picture of Ben Franklin goes missing

i ordered a tire for a fellow who lives next door ..it was for a moped and the shipping was almost as much as the tire

dave

[krusty]

when buying parts for any thing .. it is best to keep a tight grip on the pictures of the QUEEN in your pocket

even the shipping costs are getting to be a problem

seems like every time i go parts shopping here in my home town a picture of Ben Franklin goes missing

i ordered a tire for a fellow who lives next door ..it was for a moped and the shipping was almost as much as the tire

dave

Certainly is!!!

Just before xmas, I ordered a new Heater Matrix/Core from Texas for my GMC and by the time it got here to UK, the amount I paid in shipping costs AND customs, I had pretty much paid for another one!
All because it was an Item I couldn't purchase in this country... but luckily everything else is easy enough

[krusty]

WELL I seem to have a bit of an odd situation now regarding my shock linkage bearings!!!

I was messing around with my Mastiff and couldn't help myself, I just had to have another look at the play I have in the linkage at both ends of the 'dog bones'... can you blame me? I mean at over £115 for a few roller needle bearings, seals, bushes and bolts I wanted to diagnose the problem further to be sure.

anyway, on further inspection I noticed that the bearings do actually seem to be in great order and very well greased!
the bushes on inspection do seem to have a little bit of wear and markings from the needle bearings but despite this I can still slide the bushes in to the bearings fine and they seem to be very snug with absolutely no play at all... well none that I can feel or see that is!
HOWEVER when I then fit the bolts through the bushes, they slightly rattle about inside which obviously could cause play, they rattle enough that I can hear them!
I am guessing that the bolts are suppose to be a snug fit also... or am I wrong? can someone clarify this for me???

This is the ONLY thing I can honestly find regarding the problem I have simply because everything else seems to be fitting fine and snug with no play that I can see or feel.
Obviously this very slight bit of play from the bolts in the bushes between the 'dog bones' could possibly be causing the larger amount of movement once it gets to the wheel and also if left any longer, it could cause damage to the bearings I suppose!

just need to know if someone who has had a shock linkage apart in the past could confirm that the bolts slide in snug with no play or that they do have a bit of free play?

I would rather buy a set of new bolts and maybe even new bushes than a complete kit costing a small fortune... especially when half of it isn't needed

Cheers, Krusty.

[krusty]

can no one help me?

[DAVID THOMPSON]

some users show up but do not log in ,,,this means they may miss your posts

hang in there

i was the first major poster for the rt125 and a lot of fellows had a good ride because the could read my posts

the delayed reaction to a post can be a few week to a few months or years or we hope not "NEVER"

dave

[OLDMTNCARVER]

I have a low mileage '01 Baghira and after seeing your post, looked at its shock linkage.
(It is currently supported by a stand under the swing arm.)
The dog bones were tight.
I also noticed a very slight wear pattern on the edges where they contact at the shock attachment end.
What I figure is it just the design and over time they will have play from one side to the other.
If the bearings and bushings seem good and an annual clean with grease (which it sounds like your doing) should be alright.
Beyond that I could see using a dial indicator to measure the movement and possibly add shims not so much for the side to side movement but to slow the wear.
I'd be tempted to call one of the suspension guru's, just ask and learn from a pro...
When I get the chance I'll check the dog bones on my friends higher mileage KLR, should be interesting.

Regards,
Robert

[krusty]

Cheers guys

Like I said, the bearings look fine and are very well packed with grease.
The bushes have a very slight bit of wear (shiny where the bearings sit) but when slid in to place, there is absolutely no play in them.
When I then slide the bolts through the bushes, the bolts rattle up and down within the bushes!!!
I suspect this is the free play I am experiencing in the swingarm?

I only have up and down play between the dog bone bolts both ends.

OLDMTNCARVER could you possibly do me a huge favour?
With your Baghira on its side stand, can you use a jack on the frame on the other side and carefully lift your bike up on to the side stand so the back wheel is just off the floor, then can you see if you have any up and down free play in your swingarm?
If you dont and it is all solid, could you possibly take off your dog bones (only need 2x 17mm spanners to take the bolts out), once the dog bones are off, could you then just slide the bolts back through the bushes and see if they rattle about within the bush OR are they a nice snug fit with no movement?

I am hoping you tell me they fit snug in to the bush with no up and down play

At least then I will definitely know that I only have to buy new bolts and possibly new bushes... the bearings and seals are silly money

[OLDMTNCARVER]

Checked the Baghira, it was tight. Note that it's like new and very low mileage.

Checked the KLR, it's mileage several times more. Realized that it had a full chassis service, swing arm removal and lowering links installed. it was also tight.

I wrote a much more detailed response over the last couple hours and got dropped when I tried to submit my literary/technical marvel inclusive of comedic brilliance.

The short version: I'd suggest using dial calipers and dial indicators to measure clearances at the point of contact between components.

The stresses on the components is not great in my opinion and wear patterns and clearances are what I'd be looking at.

Regards,
OMC

[krusty]

Riiiiiiight... I think I may have got down to the problem I have here but with another issue!

I rang Grahams Motorcycles (importer of MZ to the UK) and spoke to the mechanic who dealt with the bikes back in the day.
He seems to think that everything sounds normal with my bike and should not need the bushes and bearings at all if they have been correctly greased (which they have) and my Mastiff having only covered 13k miles!
He also said the bolts do have a bit of play in the bushes when loose.
he also said that all the play I'm experiencing should be gone once I tighten the bolts up "VERY TIGHTLY".

Well I must confess, some complete A'hole of an idiot in the past has cross threaded the bolts so I can only give them a 'nip' up so that I don't destroy the thread completely!
so it looks as if I need some brand new bolts with fresh threads and nylock nuts so I can get them nice and tight

Called Grahams Motorcycles back to order the special 'shouldered' bolts and MZ have discontinued the item
So I'm going to try my hand at a local nut and bolt specialist shop tomorrow, if they can't help then it looks like I will have to find a machine shop to make me the bolts specially

[Hajok]

Hi Krusty, about those bolts: the original items are high tensile steel bolts with (very likely) metric FINE thread. So any regular nut will destroy it... Radial play between bolt and bushing is around 0.2 mm (eg bolt 11.9mm and bushing 12.1mm). This play is normal and should not be noticable when correctly torqued (40Nm). With fine thread this is really tight.

When considering new bolts no thread should be inside the bushing or linking rod or whatever. Otherwise the thread destroys its mating surfaces.

Before spending your cash at a specialist machining shop you could visit your local motorcycle scrapyard. They should have all kinds of interchangeable bolts with according nuts. Much much cheaper.

[krusty]

Well after a few weeks of searching around for bolts in different salvage specialists... I cant find any to match
Don't know what I am going to do now that MZ have discontinued them and no other bike uses the same bolts whether it be the length or width etc that is different

who would of thought 1 bolt could cause such a huge issue!

I did find 2 attached to a Skorpion Sport shock linkage but the guy refused to sell me them separate believe it or not and wanted over £60 for the lot!!! HOW MUCH?!!!!! I ONLY WANT 2 BOLTS!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure 1 day I will come across them