Starting problems

[zedhead]

Hi all, I've been having a few starting problems with my 1000ST, which were usually characterised by the engine failing to turn over and '0354' showing on the display. Nevertheless, it would start eventually. However, I went to collect my son from school and it wouldn't start at all, just turned the engine for a fraction of a second and then stopped cranking. I have removed and bypassed the starter inhibitor relay from inside the fairing and I'm back to the intermittent 0354 business, so my next plan is to replace the starter solenoid with a 150 amp one from an Aprilia

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1088wt_913

and if I still have trouble, a new battery. While I'm in there, having removed the fairing, I shall rewire the thing so that I'm in control of the lights - with the daylight relay removed, the headlights don't come on automatically but high beam flash doesn't work and, if the lights are off, the side lights and tail light come on whenever the brake light is on.

I'll leave updates when (if?) I make significant progress.

Finally, is there such a thing as a 'proper' wiring diagram for this bike? The wiring info in the manual is not very comprehensive!

Zed

[boilermaker]

Zed
Just had the same problem mate, cured it with a new battery, it might be down to the fact that the 4 year old battery was not up to the first frost! Iceman is right though the starter solenoid is a bit of a joke for a reasonably high demand application. Thanks for the tip re the Aprillia unit.

[MJ310]

Zed

I have been looking into the lights problem on my SF, I dont like my lights on all the time either, I have a bike without daytime lights and I don't get anymore (or less) cars pulling out on me.
The main problem with it is that the day running relay does not just bring the lights on, it also sends a signal to the MIL that all is OK, if you take out the relay you will get a MIL warning light. My research leads me to believe that 1 of the wires to the speedo cluster has to be cut and a 12 live feed soldered to it from the ignition swich side to fool the MIL into thinking the lights are on. As I do not want to chop into my wiring I am looking for a workaround, will let you know if I find one.

I have an A3 circuit diagram which I will try to get onto my computer and you can have a copy.

Mick

[GED]

its just happened to me too [spooky] ,i have just bought a starter solonoid to see if it will cure it [its been doing this since i bought the bike]its the uprated 150 amp aprillia part £20 of ebay i will try and find the article with part numbers,i havent had time to fit it yet but will poist results
also your fault code indicates a problem with the crankshaft sensor ,may need a strip down and clean aswell as the conectors this is somthing im going to do over the weekend

[GED]

Zed

I have been looking into the lights problem on my SF, I dont like my lights on all the time either, I have a bike without daytime lights and I don't get anymore (or less) cars pulling out on me.
The main problem with it is that the day running relay does not just bring the lights on, it also sends a signal to the MIL that all is OK, if you take out the relay you will get a MIL warning light. My research leads me to believe that 1 of the wires to the speedo cluster has to be cut and a 12 live feed soldered to it from the ignition swich side to fool the MIL into thinking the lights are on. As I do not want to chop into my wiring I am looking for a workaround, will let you know if I find one.

I have an A3 circuit diagram which I will try to get onto my computer and you can have a copy.

Mick

the mil light goes out after a pre determined number of engine start ups and coverage of a certain amount of miles basically the ecu learns theres nothing wrong with the bike andd shuts of the mil

[GED]

heres the link to where i got my info


http://www.apriliafutura.co.uk/atoz/solenoid.shtml

[GED]

this is the one i got i offered 20 quid and got it for that,plenty left too

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-new-12V-150 ... 230a318515

but it will be worth just checking the wiring to the crank sensor

[LWS66]

Maybe you have a later build date bike and there's been a change in the wiring, I have no idea, but I highly doubt it.
My 05 1000S has had the daylight relay out from almost day one. Once the engine light comes on it will stay on for a certain mileage or running time, then it goes out and stays out for that particular circuit/fault. There should be no need to hack wires or tear things apart. That's just back yard butchering and will just cause problems down the road either for you or the next unsuspecting owner. Pull the relay, ride it and pay no attention to the light, next thing you'll know the light will go out!

[boilermaker]

Ged
The Relay/solenoid in the E-Bay photo looks remarkably similar to the one I have in front of me and also thye original fitted by MZ. Unless it is physically bigger than the original then it may suffer the same problems. Certain batteries fitted to the 1000/s/sf/st can produce in excess of 200amps cranking power (as was pointed out by one of our other contributors) I wonder if this is not part of the problem.

[MJ310]

Thanks for all your help, I have sorted out my staring problem and my lighting workaround.

Thanks to LWS66 for the info about the MIL light but I found that putting a little tape on the feed contacts keeps the relay in circuit (keeps the ECU happy) but disables the lights, and I have a spare relay on the bike.

Zed, now that I have sorted my lights out I do not have the same problem as you do with the side light operating with the brake light, I have looked at the circuit diagram and assuming your ST has the same circuitry I dont see how it does that, I dont have a headlight flasher now but have never found the need for one in 35 years of riding so won't miss it.

Boilermaker, I just bought a heavy duty solenoid which is physically bigger than the standard one but still fits in the bike OK, plug is different but easily changed for the original but I dont need it as I solved my problem with a new battery and cleaning all the wires to the solenoid and starter, if you want it I paid £21 delivered.

Mick

[GED]

Ged
The Relay/solenoid in the E-Bay photo looks remarkably similar to the one I have in front of me and also thye original fitted by MZ. Unless it is physically bigger than the original then it may suffer the same problems. Certain batteries fitted to the 1000/s/sf/st can produce in excess of 200amps cranking power (as was pointed out by one of our other contributors) I wonder if this is not part of the problem.

i believe there both identical in size there both hitachi the original one being 50amp the uprated one 150amp they work for the aprillia guys so should work for me i will find out over the weekend when i fit it and i hope it cures the problem,

also previous post i stated that the error code quoted by zedhead related to the crankshaft sensor it does not crankshaft sensor fault code is 0335 sorry,the thing is i cant find a reference to zeds 0354 anyone know what 0354 means

[MJ310]

P0354 is not mentioned in the workshop manual but a web search for MZ ECU and segem ECU fault codes all point to ignition coil failure.

Mick

[MJ310]

P0354 is not mentioned in the reapil manual but a search on the web for MZ ECU and Segem ECU fault codes all point to ignition coil failure.

Mick

[LWS66]

Thanks for all your help, I have sorted out my staring problem and my lighting workaround.

Thanks to LWS66 for the info about the MIL light but I found that putting a little tape on the feed contacts keeps the relay in circuit (keeps the ECU happy) but disables the lights, and I have a spare relay on the bike.



Mick

That sounds like a really good alternative, which one(s) do you need to cover? More than one way to skin a cat.... yup!

[MJ310]

Put some thin tape (sellotape) around pins 3, Feed out and 5, Feed in (the two fat ones) then give it a little spray of wd40 so the tape does not get ripped going back in, job done.

Mick