My Big Skorpion Battery - 14AH

[MarkM]

I got an '01 Skorpion in October, and the battery failed pretty quickly. I ran it a while on the battery from my '95, then sold that bike.

I finally installed a replacement in the '01, with simple modification to the battery tray. My new 14 Amp-Hour AGM (absorbed glass matt) battery is built by Johnson Controls in Taiwan, sold by WalMart in the US as their EverStart number ES14-BS. $65.00 plus $9 core charge and sales tax. In inches, they list it as 6" long x 3.44" wide x 4.19" high, the same as their $55 AH model ES9-BS.

This 6" long battery is longer than the tray section of the airbox by about 1/8" (3mm). I used a heat gun on the 800 deg F setting, and warmed the plastic airbox sides near the roots of the corners, then used the round end of a large box-end wrench to push and form the softened plastic, mostly moving out the bottom and side corners a little bit. It did not take much reshaping to make the battery fit easily. Go easy on the heat, a hair dryer would not be enough, but you could easily destroy/crack/puncture the airbox if you are not careful with a true heat gun.

I did not replace my ground wires with longer leads, but that would be preferable. In order to place the ground terminal on the left side of the bike, the battery is turned with the terminals forward, under the frame strap (where the seat hooks). I needed to attach and tighten the connections while the battery was partially inserted into the tray. There is a short circuit hazard during installation, and with battery movement and uninsulated positive terminal. With longer ground leads, the terminals could be rearward, and not near that metal frame. I do intend to use longer leads, and reverse the battery. Today, I do have the insulating hood on the positive terminal, and worked out a retention strap to keep the battery from moving.

The original 'hook' for the o-ring battery retention on the bottom of the tray will not work with this wider (deeper) battery. I intend to build a alternate hook, and get a longer o-ring. Today, I grabbed a few zip-ties and put about 4 in series to make a long loop around the neck at the top of the shock body (at the eye, where its movement is minimal). The top of the loop is hooked around the original o-ring peg on the frame strap, and did not need to be cinched down hard to appropriately retain the battery.

I'm guessing the cranking speed is improved 20% over the smaller batteries in either of these bikes. Other than these two, I've never even seen another 660 Yamaha, and don't know if these have been typical.

Cheers,

Mark
San Carlos, California

P.S.
I wish the EverStart line had a 7AH AGM battery, I would have chosen that for the upgrade I just did on my KTM 400 EXC dirtbike. The Yuasa I bought had list price at $110! I am aware that the BikeMaster brand has a reasonably priced 7AH AGM, but it wasn't available when/where I needed it.

[Bill Jurgenson]

What is important is the start amperage( excuse the possibly incorrect term, I've been away too long; in German Kurzschlussleistung=shortcircuit current) not necessarily the Amp/h rating of the battery.
Of course you can jam a much bigger battery into the space. and, of course, that will give you more amps.
You can also take a battery with a higher "Kurzschlussleistung" such as an Odessey or Genesis:
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc310.htm
this one fits, is way more than enough and probably more in terms of starting than what you managed to cram in.
I know from experience cause I have been using these and putting them in customer bikes for 12 years now.
I still have and even occasionally use the first one, now 12 years old.
As nearest as I can find out, what you have is actually a Varta:
http://pmd.varta-automotive.com/pmd2/showBatterieDetail.do;jsessionid=945B2EE9DC4444E7C0F64E9414FE7B21?ArtikelNr=512903013A514
once german, bought up by Johnson, it is not an elcheapo brand. But the comparison ought to show what I mean:
the PC310 has 200amps for 30 sec. and a shortciruit current of 455amps!
The Varta has 130 which is a helluva lot more han an oldfashioned lead/acid battery like you threw out to be sure.

Personally I use a tiny LiFePo with just nominal 4,6Amp/h
http://shop.strato.de/epages/61333079.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61333079/Products/4s2p_A123_Block_V2
sorry, my source is here in Germany and so the page is in German but you can read the numbers.
It has a shortcircuit current of 150-200amps despite its niminal rating of only 4,6amp/h and is very small, weighing 265grams=9.4oz.
Here, the discrepancy is more than obvious: 4,6amp/h and 150amps to the decent Varta 12-14amp/h and 130amps.
this little thing starts my relatively highly tuned engine without decompression unit easily every time.
I am not advocating getting something like this, but I am (for the umpteenth time) recommending getting a PC310 or equivalent:
Hawker SBS8
Varley RedTop 8

[MarkM]

"I am not advocating getting something like this, but I am (for the umpteenth time) recommending getting a PC310 or equivalent:
Hawker SBS8
Varley RedTop 8
Bill,"

Hi Bill,

I liked and appreciated your recommendations, I had searched them out ealier. I found the PC310 equivalent batteries only via mail and at higher prices than I chose to pay. I have added a couple pounds to my MZ with this cheaper battery, but gained cranking amperage, overall capacity, and commonality with my Triumph Sprint ST 955 and possibly my TL1000S.

Cheers,

Mark

[hb7]

Speaking for the stock size Y9L-B lead acid battery in Yuasa...
I got 5 years out of the first one on my Skorp. I'm on my second one.
Other than adding distilled water twice a year, very reliable.
You can't easily push start a 660cc single.

[Old Dog]

Which begs the question about the economy of these sealed units. Unless they last 3-4 times as long as the lead acid I cannot see the advantage in terms of cost. With Bill's set up ie no decomp I OK but for the rest I am not too sure.

[jimc]

For USA riders - NAPA auto parts chain stocks an OEM size battery = NAPA part number 9L-B.
I can vouch for its reliability and very low cost (less than $50).
Mine is going 5 years on a stock Skorpion and still seems OK.
I think that use of a battery maintainer is a good thing although
these do require checking water level every few months.
Harbor freight has these for 7$ or less.
Jim

[hb7]

Definitely interesting batteries : is 15A enough for starting ? They include the CMD protection board.....here.

One CMB installed (locate outside of the box) with the battery pack and protects the battery from
Overcharge (> 15.6V)
Over discharge (<9.2 V)
Over drain ( >16 Amp)
Short circuits



http://www.batteryspace.com/Customize-LiFePO4-26650-Battery-12.8V-6.6Ah-84Wh-25A-rate-in-Aluminum.aspx

[Bill Jurgenson]

is 15A enough for starting

I assume a rhetoric question...

mine only has 4.6 and is more than enuf!

As for the question put further above, it is always a qustion of what is important to oneself. Over here, many of us try to reduce as much of the ridiculously high weight of the bike as possible. Thus putting an even heavier battery in just to start it is a no-go. As many of us also run the cam without the decompression unit (for good reasons I will not go into yet again) a stronger battery that is not heavier and bigger is a must.
As for longevity, I have written more than I care to count that my first SBS8 is now 12 years old and not kaputt.

[Old Dog]

I agree Bill with your position, however if for arguments sake a standard battery can be expected to last say 5 yrs (which doesn't seem uncommon here) and costs less than a third of the sealed unit then the sealed unit would need to last at least 15 to make it financially viable, other benefits aside. For instance the Hawker etc cost here in the UK in the region of 110.00 sterling, a quick search found me lead acid batterys in the region of 25.00. Now that little wonder battery you're running has benefits over both. It depends on the value one puts on those benefits.

[angustoyou]

A very quick Google search on the PC310 showed me a price of £144. I nearly fell off the sofa!

I was interested in the thread, as when I got my bike, the battery was less than half full (not half way down the reccomended level, half full), and cranks v e r y s l o wl y w h e n s t a r t i n g, so a replacement is on the horizon.

My local Halfords looked expensive to me, at £55 for a more powerful lead acid than I have fitted, but my other bike (CCM 404) had a sealed battery last year, which is around the same size, and fires the 400 single up very effectively, for I think £45.

I daren't look at the dinky battery that Bill's running, because I'm very much of the mindset that says if it needs replacing then fit a better / lighter one in it's place, and I'll want it!

[angustoyou]

Oh, and I have never, ever replaced more than one battery in a vehicle, so life doesn't really come into it.

[guitarzan]

I've had good luck the last couple years with a stock sized MotoBatt AGM battery from BatteryWeb in the US.
It's dual polarity, so there were no worries about having the positive/negative terminals in the right spot.
The amp hours are lower than 14, but the CCA is a respectible 150. With no accessories, that been enough juice for mine.
I rarely trickle charge it, because it is garaged and always registers full charge. Much better than the lead acid Yuasa in this small size.
As an extra bonus, it was yellow to match my Sport, which has no air box and the battery is visible.

MB9U
MotoBatt

Voltage: 12 V
AH: 11 AH
Type: AGM - SLA
CCA: 150
Polarity: Dual Weight: 6
Length: 5.4
Width: 3
Height: 5.2

Price: $58.00

[billr]

Definitely interesting batteries : is 15A enough for starting ? They include the CMD protection board.....here.
One CMB installed (locate outside of the box) with the battery pack and protects the battery from
Overcharge (> 15.6V)
Over discharge (<9.2 V)
Over drain ( >16 Amp)
Short circuits

Henri,
I looked at that site and that is a "limit" of 16amps current placed on the battery by the "CMB". This battery will not supply more than 16 amps current, which I'm betting, will not be enough to start a Skorp.
And the connectors look to be for some type of low current power supply. (The other products mention solar power charging and such.)
I pulled 40-50 amps on my RC heli all the time. I haven't measured the amp draw when starting the Skorpions, anybody know what it is?
Do away with that CMB board and you'd have a battery...
Bill R