The story of the noisey Starter and milk like oil.

[Bill Jurgenson]

no, that one does not fit the MZs because it is not cut out in the center for the engine.

b

[Srinath]

This noisy starter and milky oil have showed up @ my bike too.
In addition I have disappearing coolant and a radiator that is under pressure even after cooling sorta like opening a soda can.

The bike ran great saturday, and on sunday this happened. I am thinking of torqueing the head bolts first ... but I hope I can get away without replacing the gasket. It did sit for a few months before that but the gas is new and the oil was fresh before winter. Well I am thinking its not so fresh any more though.

The starter idler gears seem to be in great shape and the bearing seems great. The battery I am not too thrilled about it may be giving up a bit too.

You guys think it could be head gasket ?

Thanks.
Srinath.

[angustoyou]

Sounds like it, and no amount of torquing is going to fix it I'm afraid. If it's leaking, it's already destroyed the sealing properties of the gasket.

You will absolutely definately need a minimum of the new gasket, if that's where it's leaking from. You MUST check if it needs skimming while you are there, or you could be simply throwing your new gasket away. Been there, done that.

Bad news, I know.

[Srinath]

Well I entirely failed to get the cyl head cover off. Next time I have to do that, I will be hacking off the top frame brace and fabbing up a removable one.
Anyway I got the thing assembled back, and there is no more problem. No milky oil, no clanging starter (I suspect it was a combo of weak battery and the milk like oil) and the milk like oil, well its also gone ever since I got it nice and hot over the last 2 days.
Essentially condensation caused the milk, the poor battery caused the clanging @ start, and the radiator getting pressureised, well I assumed it would have got colder faster I guess, and it may have been warmer than when I started it then.
I have a headlight issue to take care of and I am good I'd guess.
Weird bike to say the least.
Ran great yesterday though.
Cool.
Srinath.

[Bill Jurgenson]

check my blog but also older postings here.
I cut that cross brace out three years ago with no ill effects at all.
Lots of benefits, tho.

[Linegeist]

check my blog but also older postings here.
I cut that cross brace out three years ago with no ill effects at all.
Lots of benefits, tho.

That mod appeals to me no end - but ..........

It does seem odd that an outfit like Seymour Powell would have built something so apparently redundant into their design, when weight and manufacturing complexity were both (presumably) at the forefront of their minds on the drawing board. However, (very) roughly sketching out the math, it seems to me that there's more than enough bracing in the rest of the main frame tubing, plus that nice rigid engine, to cope with anything that motor'll chuck out without that crossbrace. Curious.

If only for the sake of easy access, I must get some fresh hacksaw blades..............

[Bill Jurgenson]

the Seymour Powell design study had an air-cooled Rotax engine.
The second generation works racers do not have that cross tube but they do have a substancial secondary frame around the front of the engine which is welded to the main frame instead of the bolted down tube in front. The SZR has only a bolted in cross piece to hang the engine but this does nothing for the frame. The Yamaha front frame piece is also of little use really. In the Yamaha, the engine has no part in assisting the frame.
One does not need both tubes I think the down tube is far more important. that cross tube, apart from attaching the head, basically retains the inside width and is thus meant to stabilize the bottom of the steering head. My experience with the MZ frame is that it is - typically german - built like a brick shithouse. Over designed like so much of german engineering.
My. frame with N°. 004 is the first Replica prototype frame which was rejected as too weak! It weighs only 8kg. The production Replica frames weighed about 10 and the stock frames around 14 I think. when the stock of prefabbed tock frames was used up, all models got the Replica frame, so. late model Skorpions, the ones with the smaller instruments and orange Denso box are a few pounds lighter.
Even so, my green bike still weighs (without that cross tube) 148kg with full tank and the air-cooled motor is heavier than the water-cooled. Still too heavy but a helluva lot lighter than the 185 of the stock bike. The SZR is heavier yet, despite its much lighter wheels. That 1990 design study proportedly weighed 140kg. A VUN weighs about 140 as well.
Whatever
I've "tested" my "flimsy"(according to MZ) without the tube with payload, i. e. withheavy, high tank bag, my own weight and back pack and could not tell any difference, not st speed on the Autobahn, not on favorite twisty roads, either.
When I got up the nerve to cut out the tube, I fit two cross measures to the frame first, both to control how much it might possibly change and also in case I wanted to weld it back in. The frame changed all of 0,5mm. I cut the tube at an angle at both sides to make a cradle for an aluminum replacement to be bolted in - which I decided was totally unnecessary. Next time, I would remove all traces.

[droy]

Bill,

Happy 4th of July!

I've never seen a actual picture of the late model Skorpion instrumentation cluster but have seen the parts book drawings. Any picturess to share in your file?

Doug in NJ

[DAVID THOMPSON]

correct me if i am wrong

it looks like total removal of the tube would make it easier
to remove and refit the fuel tank
mine is a beast to remove and refit
i am not a big fan of mods but if this makes tank removal easier
it will be missing SOON from my bike
dave
97 660 traveller

[Bill Jurgenson]

for the life of me, I can't see how that cross tube has anything to do with the tank.
That said, the tank drama has always nerved me no end. With three different Skorpions, I had my share. Both the red and blue bikes had the "standard" unremovable screws at the back of the tank, forcing one to remove the tank complete with the stamped sheetmetal support bracket.
After a whiie, I devised a method or repairing that problem, so that the tank screws would actually be used. My green bike never had that problem, tho, so I figured it must have something to do with initial assembly and possible use of something like Loctite. We built the green bike from scratch and know how and what was used for assembly. On the racer, I simply held the tank down with two rubber straps for the purpose as used in many vintage racers:

you can just see it hooked to an Allenhead bolt in the bracket. Since the tank was removed after every run the rubber catches didn't tear and worked fine, but if I forgot to undo them for any real length of time (e.g. over the winter), I found them torn so not a good idea for normal use. Besides, since there was no enclosing seat fairing, they ere easily gotten to, again, not the normal status quo.

For the Green street bike, I came up with something altogether better and really rather easy:

Camloc Schnappverschluss.jpg (10.1 KiB) Viewed 3989 times

Camloc Schnappverschluss2.jpg (11.07 KiB) Viewed 3989 times

The triangular stainless sheet metal is bolted to the tank with two cylindrical bushings as spacers over which the rubber grommets normally use for tank have been placed. The tops of the two "eyes" on the tank bracket have been sawn out so that two tapered slots, opening towards the the top are formed. the "Camloc" latch is riveted with pop rivets to the stainless bracket and - voilá - the tank and a latch with lock catch that cannot open by accident. One simple grip and the tankcan be lifted off - IF the fuel hose has been fitted with a quick release.

All covered in my blog.

[basser23]

Bill,
What model series number Camloc did you use for the tank?...brilliant idea...
Thanks,
Chip

[billr]

Bill,
What model series number Camloc did you use for the tank?...brilliant idea...
Thanks,
Chip

I'd like to know, also. I searched around and found this one that looks close...
Camloc V934L
haven't been able to find a supplier here in Nashville, though...
Bill R (not the Bill you really want... )

[Bill Jurgenson]

that's the one, with "secondary lock."

[Srinath]

Oh good to know I am not the first one to think of cutting somethign off.
Usually I am ... and after you do 1 in my case it was the vulcan 750 I had with a dead alternator, and that frame I swear was paper thin, 20 min sawing job including a walmart run to buy blades for my sawzall, and once you find out how easy it is, its adios baby.
Anyway, I am glad to know its cut worthy. I'd also leave the thing off, however the tank uses it as a hinge/saddle point, I'd hack it clean off or re fab a removable one that leaves the original profile intact, nothing else, I want the tank to sorta ride on it and sit there just the way it is. BTW the plastic tank could use that cross support - maybe.
Today I think I climb the carb mountain on this thing. Its got starting issues like no body's business.
Cool.
Srinath.

[Bill Jurgenson]

what bike are you talking about?
The frame cross tube holds only the cylinderhead. Neither tank nor seat have anything to do with it on a Skorpion.