Oil consumption to *some* problem

[chisleu]

So I have an oil consumption issue. On my first oil change, it had little oil in the engine. Maybe 1 quart. Ridiculous.

I checked it after 500mi and it had not used any oil, however I just turned it off (didn't let it idle for 30 seconds) and it didn't show any consumption however when I changed the oil at 2500mi it had very little oil (less than 1 quart) and it was black as night. I found a couple little metal shavings on the course oil drain at the front.

So should I pull the engine or wait for it to blow up? It seems that pulling the engine is the smart thing to do. Maybe get away with some boring (or not), a piston (or not), rings, and bearings.

Riding it til it pops seems to be a bad idea, but has the advantage of not dealing with the problem yet.

Any ideas? I am very disappointed.

[GordonH]

Are you draining the oil at all three points?

Also, where are you located?

Gordon

[aah5]

Oil consumption with the 660 engine depends on how hard you work it. I have 2 Skorp's, a Tour and a Sport.
The Tour which has been used for commuting and long trips has had a top end rebuild,(1st o/s piston, new valves & stem seals) at 120,000kls and is now back to it's original consumption about 1/2L per 1000kls.
The Sport on the other hand, which has about 50,000 kls and is used for commuting and hot runs up in the hills and curves uses about twice that amount.
Rule is check and top up regularly and change frequently, big singles always tend to use oil when they are ridden hard.

[chisleu]

Are you draining the oil at all three points?

Also, where are you located?

Gordon

3 points? I drained it from the oil drain. then I backed out the bottom screw for the filter 5 turns, then I removed the course screw from the front. It had next to no oil in it and now it's making a sound that makes me think rod knock.

I'm in South Carolina.

I did not check the oil level properly. I had no idea they eat oil and I needed to do anything other than change the oil every 2500 mi or so. I should have been checking, but I screwed up.

I'm going to do some poking about for part numbers If it ran without oil. It may have damaged a lot of stuff in there other than the rings and bearings.

[GordonH]

My mistake. I was thinking the oil pipe, drain and coarse filter. Hope it isn't as bad as you think. Back Roads Triumph used to sponsor one of the Skorpion Cup racers. They're in NC around Jacksonville. They might be able to help out.

Gordon

[chisleu]

My mistake. I was thinking the oil pipe, drain and coarse filter. Hope it isn't as bad as you think. Back Roads Triumph used to sponsor one of the Skorpion Cup racers. They're in NC around Jacksonville. They might be able to help out.

Gordon

With building the engine?


EDIT: That is 2.5hrs away and I certainly don't mind going if it could be a seamless experience, however if I can find the torque specs and parts, I'm more than capable of building the engine.

I'm wondering if the rod bearing is accessable without removing the engine from the bike. If I can change that bearing just to see if it kills the noise then I'll do it and then closely monitor oil levels to see how bad the damage to the rings are. I'm betting it's pretty severe. When I just cranked it with the choke, it was blowing a little smoke (could only see it in the dark and the cold. Once it warmed up it stopped, but the ticking in the engine sounds like rod knock so I'm not going to ride until I get it fixed.

I'm very temped to do an electrical conversion, but so close to Christmas, my wife would freak.

[Bill Jurgenson]

if I can find the torque specs and parts, I'm more than capable of building the engine.

excuse my candidness, but if you can't find the above, I readly imagine the actual work would be more than challenging.
It is a Yamaha engine (3YF). All the data can be found online with a bit of diligence as well as from one or the other here and over at the Yahoo group.
And no, you can do next to nothing without pulling then engine.

and yes, you need to check the oil frequently and do it correctly. That, too, should be simple basic knowledge about dry sump engines, whether in cars or bikes. They've been around since 1900 so there is no excuse.

Consumption is not because the it eats oil, it doesn't unless it is really far gone, too far...
But it pumps it out thru every possible hole. Every big single does because of the pressure fluctuations in the crankcase are extreme. And the more you fill into the tank, the more it pumps out. Always dependent, as mentioned further up, on usage and revvs. For the Skorpion, more than minimum is too much and it will never fail to reduce the tank level to minimum with hours.

b

[basser23]

Thought he had a Baggie....same motor,but oil tank is in the frame is it not?

[chisleu]

if I can find the torque specs and parts, I'm more than capable of building the engine.

excuse my candidness, but if you can't find the above, I readly imagine the actual work would be more than challenging.
It is a Yamaha engine (3YF). All the data can be found online with a bit of diligence as well as from one or the other here and over at the Yahoo group.
And no, you can do next to nothing without pulling then engine.

I already have the SZR manual which I believe was said to be the same engine for the most part. (I don't recall if someone said it was a different bottom end or something.)

When I said "if I can find the torque specs and parts", perhaps I should have said "When I decide to stop kicking myself for wrecking the bottom end of the bike and decide to look for the information and products." Perhaps that would have been more correct and less misleading. I've built a few engines before, but certainly not as many or as well as you.

and yes, you need to check the oil frequently and do it correctly. That, too, should be simple basic knowledge about dry sump engines, whether in cars or bikes. They've been around since 1900 so there is no excuse.

There is in fact 1 excuse. I've never owned a dry sump anything, or a motorcycle (rode my father's a lot but never had to service it.) I had no idea they consume oil in this manor. No one told me and I didn't read it anywhere. I bought a 12 year old bike with no owners manual and no instructions. "basic knowledge" isn't always "basic." I guess I know now though so next time there won't be an excuse....

Consumption is not because the it eats oil, it doesn't unless it is really far gone, too far...
But it pumps it out thru every possible hole. Every big single does because of the pressure fluctuations in the crankcase are extreme. And the more you fill into the tank, the more it pumps out. Always dependent, as mentioned further up, on usage and revvs. For the Skorpion, more than minimum is too much and it will never fail to reduce the tank level to minimum with hours.

b

Neet. I figured it was just burning it off very slowly.

[chisleu]

I've decided to ride the bike until the problem worsens. If it grenades the bottom end I'll start my electric conversion sooner than anticipated. If it doesn't, maybe I'll repair the engine.

Just had the spark plug back out and fall out. I guess it wasn't propperly tightened (couldn't find the plug after the event.)

At first I thought maybe the rod bearing had exploded and maybe the clearances were such that the piston would then be able to strike the spark plug, however a new plug and she is running stronger than before. Interesting.

I've also lost the countershaft nut and washer so I'm hunting those part numbers now. Hoping to find one locally or overnight.

[chisleu]

So after ~550km, lots of beating on it and highway speeds (with my 15/50 gearing which really revs it out at 65mph):

Oil didn't read on the dipstick and 1 qt put it right above the max mark.

[billr]

So after ~550km, lots of beating on it and highway speeds (with my 15/50 gearing which really revs it out at 65mph):
Oil didn't read on the dipstick and 1 qt put it right above the max mark.

Well, I think it's time to give it some work...
My Traveller has 25K miles and on a 600 mile (mostly interstate with ~100 miles thrashing on the backroads) trip, I used ~300mls.
Normal commute, I use less than that in 1k miles.
Stock 15-39 gearing, so interstate at 75 is ~5k rpm.
Good luck,
Bill

[chisleu]

So after ~550km, lots of beating on it and highway speeds (with my 15/50 gearing which really revs it out at 65mph):
Oil didn't read on the dipstick and 1 qt put it right above the max mark.

Well, I think it's time to give it some work...
My Traveller has 25K miles and on a 600 mile (mostly interstate with ~100 miles thrashing on the backroads) trip, I used ~300mls.
Normal commute, I use less than that in 1k miles.
Stock 15-39 gearing, so interstate at 75 is ~5k rpm.
Good luck,
Bill

Your gearing is much much different than mine as well. My 5th gear is like my 4th was on my stock 15 / 45 gearing

[billr]

Your gearing is much much different than mine as well. My 5th gear is like my 4th was on my stock 15 / 45 gearing

I was referring to the amount of oil used in so short a time.

So after ~550km, lots of beating on it and highway speeds (with my 15/50 gearing which really revs it out at 65mph):
Oil didn't read on the dipstick and 1 qt put it right above the max mark.

550km (340mi) and 1 quart of oil to top it off?
If it's not smoking, it's blowing out some where.
When mine starts using that much, it'll be time for a tear-down.
Bill R

[chisleu]

Your gearing is much much different than mine as well. My 5th gear is like my 4th was on my stock 15 / 45 gearing

I was referring to the amount of oil used in so short a time.

So after ~550km, lots of beating on it and highway speeds (with my 15/50 gearing which really revs it out at 65mph):
Oil didn't read on the dipstick and 1 qt put it right above the max mark.

550km (340mi) and 1 quart of oil to top it off?
If it's not smoking, it's blowing out some where.
When mine starts using that much, it'll be time for a tear-down.
Bill R

It does not appear to be leaking, dripping or spraying anything anywhere. I've cleaned the engine completely and it still looks great. It smokes a tiny bit on startup, and maybe it's smoking very slowly, but I can't see it.

The reason I mentioned the gearing is because my rpms must be very much higher at cruise.

I'm going to ride it and oil it til it pops. Then I'm going to get a cruiser and convert this monster to electric drive.