clunk noise @ start up

[OLDMTNCARVER]

Dave,

I got online and looked at two websites that supply the gear.
One had it at $75 and the other at roughly $45. (shipping would be need to be considered)
After that I called the nearest dealer located an hour away and was quoted a price of $90 if tax was added.
I'm wondering what kind of price you had to pay for the gear in New York (heck I'm only three thousand miles, less the six miles to the coast away from that one.)

Also note Bills placement of the two gears side by side. If you click on the picture to enlarge, imagine a straight line from the lower edge of each keyway to the teeth on both gears. A clockwise count of five teeth and I find a dimple on both.
I'm not sure... never the less, Mr. Jurgenson might have done this for an older gentleman like me, gracious sole that he is.

Regards,
Robert

[Bill Jurgenson]

yes and no.
The Raptor crankcase halves do fit in the frame and they also fit all the internals, but the XTZ side covers do not fit. Otherwise I would have long gone over to using it because of the much better oil filter solution.
3YF crankcase, i.e. the one we have, the Yamaha internal number for this engine is 3YF

the matching side covers

hier the raptor case,

it gets complicated because of the generator and starter stuff on the left. None of this is compatible with the 3YF. Since the Raptor has a CDI (we DO NOT HAVE A CDI)
none of the ignition stuff works, either.

not worth it

[spadesup420]

Thanks bill
I got intouch with Mr bill and I'm waiting on a price list for the crankcase

I still wanna know what needs to be done to run without the balancer weight
I wouldn't even need a new case if I could just get rid of the counter balance

[Bill Jurgenson]

and I specifically said to do some homework in checking the archives.
maybe my blog, too.

you should not run without the balancer because it is a necessary part of the crankcase breather system.
I know this from learning by doing. My first attempt was simply without and left me without oil within a few kms.
So we inserted a makeshift alu tube of similar diameter where the balancer had been to the breather on the left side. That worked and remained that way for 50tkm; makeshifts have a way of becoming permanent. like I said it works but only at civilized rpm and sedate street riding. Beyound that the oil is pumped out thru the breather.
Took me a while to figure it out; the street bike would act up periodically, especially after prolonged runs at 7000+ (Autobahn). I discovered that the airbox was so full of oil that as soon as engine speed amd vibes were over midrange it sucked in the oil as well. Started and idled fine.
Mopping out the airbox with a paper towel did the trick. Later I put a separate catch bottle for the breather.
much better
For the race engine I made a dummy from alu exactly like the b-shaft with its bearings, inside diameters etc exactly replicated. only difference: it had no gesr and didn't turn.

Despite two large breathers, the race engine spewed 1/4 -1/2ltr into the catch tank in the coarse of a 40min turn.
9000+rpm just pumps a lot more.

the second breather hose, 1"Ø from the head to the large with plastic can can.


With time I figured the thing out and what I had done wrong.
The shaft must rotate. It can be a simple round shaft with no balance function but it must rotate because it is a centrifugal separator. The rotation separates the heavier oil mist, forcingit out against the inner surface, the air passes on thru; since the far left end has a reduction, sort of dam for the oil, most of the oil passes on thru the small peripheral holes in the shaft onto the cluster.

like I said, I have written all this before and I definitely will not write it again. It escapes me - guess I am too old, my idea of courtesy and also self-reliance too antiquated - no I am baffled by the childlike dependency and impertinent persistance. I did my homework, too. I wasn't born with unlimited knowledge. I found the online Yamaha parts catalogue by myself cause I looked.
BTW - no secret again - the XT600E was sold in the States and its two crankcase halves are the self-same parts. The right side of the kickstart xt600 as well and that of the later SRXs, too.
How often have I written that Yamaha has "erector-set" engineering of basic models that all have common parts. As many as possible.

Nobody can say I am secretive or unhelpful but there is a limit. Answering questions I (and others) have already answered too often for people simply too lazy to use the search or Google IS that limit.
Recent case here: brake light switch. full two pages.
For crying out loud! it ias a simple hydraulic switch, nothing more. It is not made by MZ or Yamaha or even Brembo, let alone Grimeca.
practically all motorcycles and all non use cars have one of two threads for such a part: either M10x1 (Brembo and european manufacturers in general) or M10x1.25 everything else, especially the japanese but also the Grimeca crap, who knows why. For most things, 10mm metric fine in Japan is 1.25 pitch, in Europe 1.0mm pitch. It is a simple as that.
But even lacking the incentive to do a simple Google search, why for christ's sake not just take it out and measure it instead of wasting everyone's time?
It is not a MZ part any more than it is a Yamaha part or even any kind of specialty; any "foreign" car shop worth its salt will have it on stock or get it over nite.
Not to forget ebay automotive.
Oh, I forgot! That would mean doing something on one's own.

all of this reminds me somehow of l'il Abner...

[cat]

indeed.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=XTZ660+crankcase

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=baghira+brake+light+switch

[basser23]

Have to agree w/cat and bill.....

[spadesup420]

like I said, I have written all this before and I definitely will not write it again. It escapes me - guess I am too old, my idea of courtesy and also self-reliance too antiquated - no I am baffled by the childlike dependency and impertinent persistance. I did my homework, too. I wasn't born with unlimited knowledge. I found the online Yamaha parts catalogue by myself cause I looked.
BTW - no secret again - the XT600E was sold in the States and its two crankcase halves are the self-same parts. The right side of the kickstart xt600 as well and that of the later SRXs, too.
How often have I written that Yamaha has "erector-set" engineering of basic models that all have common parts. As many as possible.

Nobody can say I am secretive or unhelpful but there is a limit. Answering questions I (and others) have already answered too often for people simply too lazy to use the search or Google IS that limit.
Recent case here: brake light switch. full two pages.
For crying out loud! it ias a simple hydraulic switch, nothing more. It is not made by MZ or Yamaha or even Brembo, let alone Grimeca.
practically all motorcycles and all non use cars have one of two threads for such a part: either M10x1 (Brembo and european manufacturers in general) or M10x1.25 everything else, especially the japanese but also the Grimeca crap, who knows why. For most things, 10mm metric fine in Japan is 1.25 pitch, in Europe 1.0mm pitch. It is a simple as that.
But even lacking the incentive to do a simple Google search, why for christ's sake not just take it out and measure it instead of wasting everyone's time?
It is not a MZ part any more than it is a Yamaha part or even any kind of specialty; any "foreign" car shop worth its salt will have it on stock or get it over nite.
Not to forget ebay automotive.
Oh, I forgot! That would mean doing something on one's own.

all of this reminds me somehow of l'il Abner...

i am not a forum genius. i dont know how to use forums 100%.
i have found out most of what i need to do on my own.
you have been alot of help bill but, i do not have a problem finding out on my own. i know
how to search. i have searched this site my self for anything that would help only after i
cannot find it do i ask a simple question. like hey you need a dummy shaft
o that was simple answer .or even hey look in this thread (thread title) its all in there
i do not ask you to type a story.
i went to your profile looked thru most of your threads and still havent found anything
about how or if you can run a dummy shaft.
again i am not an unappreciative twerp !!!
i thank you for every word you have typed .you have been more help than the 15 yamaha
dealers i have called 4 of which i went to. o and the 10 machine shops i have been to asking if
they can balance my crank to run with out the counter weight. thats not counting all the
single cyl. engine builders who build my 125cc engines and my 500cc engines that i have
talked with since monday the deathday of my bike my boss told me thursday that he is on
the verge of letting me go because all i talk about is my bike all i do all day is research
stuff on what i can and cannot do
thanks again bill
Justin

[Bill Jurgenson]

a few short comments in no particular order.

you do not need a dummy. That was a dead end, a shortsight I made and I just explained that this morning.
you need the rotating shaft, whether weighted ot not.

the balancer has NOTHING WHATEVER to do with the balance factor of the crank.
A one cylinder crank cannot be dynamically balanced at all. It must always be lopsided. How much is whst to decide.
any offer to do so is not serious, just hype to pull an xtra buck from you pocket. steer far away.
read my little ditty in counterbalancers on my blog. If you don't want to believe me, get the necessary engineering papers.

sorry fir the short temper. getting old and cranky.

[DAVID THOMPSON]

getting old and cranky.

me also
when it comes to answering questions about wiring that can be answered

if the school systems had spent some time teaching people to read a wiring drawing

dave

[spadesup420]

This is the problem I have

[Srinath]

The bike now only makes noise as I shut it off. The last few starts were very normal.
I presume the gear and the woodruff key are on the left side of the engine case, cos that is where the noise seems to come from mine.
Now is it an advantage to get that solid gear from a raptor ?
Thanks and its been a great help.
Cool.
Srinath.

[OLDMTNCARVER]

Srinath,
The only way you will know is looking at the parts on the inside. That means taking the case and parts mentioned in this thread out to examine (As David and I both will be doing). The gear can be purchased at anytime the important thoughts that I have are...
As David has stated on the first page of this thread he has decided to parK his skorpion until he replaces the gear (parts) in question.
Thankful of Bills imput and other folks not so pleasent experiance, I also have decided to do the same as it doesn't make sense to take the chance to turn my Baghira into a "parts bike" because I wouldn't make the swap of that gear. Even so, I might open mine up the find a damaged key way and need to replace even more parts, though I hope the low (5,000) miles is working to my advantage, I HOPE.
If I choose to run my motorcycle and it fails not only will I destroy the engine but what might transpire at any given speed while I'm on it, I don't choose to find out.
Thank you for your patience with my thoughts...
To answer your question about the location. If you look at the three pictures from a previous post by Bill I found and shared on the first page of this thread, the bottom picture not only shows the (replacement Raptor) gear, the furthest gear to the right in the case (and picture), you can also see it in the above picture compared to the standard with the springs.
If you look at the upper right portion of the bottom picture you will see the small end of the connecting rod leaning forward as it would, towards the front of the engine, hense the side you are looking at is the right side of the engine, not the left.
Also look at the keyway in the top picture of the three of Bills that I reposted on the first page of this thread. Compare it to the keyway centered in the picture on the post before yours.
Again it's your ears, hearing your motorcycle. I wish I could offer you more.
Regards,
Robert

[Srinath]

Oh yes thanks much, right side it is, the microfiche had me confused. That plus the fact the left side has a woodruff key on the crank.

I guess I will try to touch the engine case and see where I feel the noise. Apart from that, the bike is parked except for that 1 experiment after which it will be dismantled and examined.

Thanks.
Srinath.

[OLDMTNCARVER]

Srinath,
You probably already know this...
A long screw driver with one end on the area your listening to and the other end, the handle firm against your ear can be a big help locating where a noise is coming from. (Putting a piece of tape over the end in contact will help avoid scratches)
And a card board paper towel tube in the same fashion can help finding exhaust leaks.
Poor mans tools...
Best wishes,
Robert

[djsbriscoe]

If any one does this over easter could you please document the work with quick photo's in a dedicated separate post.
I ask this so that an accurate assesment can be made of the tools required (parts have been mentioned many times-but worth mentioning again for completeness) to do the job.
I don't have the luxury of a garage so any work I do on the skorpion has to take account of the weather. I need to be able to do the work in a series of steps so I can stop if the weather turns bad. The skorpion is not on the road at the moment anyway so I may as well plan the work properly, even though the bike has only done around 3K miles.
Anyone UK based planning on doing this work? If so, where have you bought the balance gear,washer and key (and any gaskets needed) from (other than Grahams)?
Sorry if I'm asking for information already in the forum. It's just that it's much better if it's presented in a step by step way for people like myself who are not working on engines every day (stripped and rebuilt my RT125 cylinder head a few times recently so I'm not completely green).

Thanks.

David.

P.S Please list any tools like pullers.