Baghira front Caliper

[amahoser]

My front caliper for my Baghira is leaking and needs a rebuild kit. Grahams, SF Moto and Bikeworx do not have them in stock. I fear that since MZ is gone these will be hard to source. Are there any good aftermarket or oem alternates for the caliper on a baghira. I searched this site and saw that Brembo P4 30/36 seems to be the upgrade caliper for a skorpion but that is a 4 pot caliper and mine is only a 2 pot. Will it work without clearance issues? Any other calipers that I should be looking at?

Jose Soriano

[Bill Jurgenson]

if it's not too much to ask, I suggest looking a few threads down:
http://www.mzriders.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5874

The front clamp is not two piston. It is a 4 pot floating caliper.

[amahoser]

I saw that thread. He is pretty much asking the same questions that I am asking. Is this a direct fit for the Baghira? Does it need a new bracket? Will the 4 pot caliper clear the wire wheels?

I also saw your excellent write up on the Brembo Master Cylinder thread. Great job and very informative.

However that information is for a Skorpion and not a Baghira. You specified a P4 30/34 r which I believe is the right side caliper. On my Baghira, the Caliper is on the Left side. Also my Grimeca Caliper is(for sure... just double checked) a 2 piston caliper. I believe the Skorpions use a 4 piston one.

I am willing to try a p4 30/34 but I was hoping for confirmation before spending the money

Jose Soriano

[Bill Jurgenson]

nope
this is a two piston caliper

and so is the rear brake of the Baggi.
The Baggi has a floating caliper which does have only two moving pistons but they are next to each other pressing on a wide pad and opposite a similar pad on the other side of the rotor, i.e. what amounts in terms swept area to the same thing as a 4 piston caliper like the P30/34. this is the Brembo of which the Grimeca is a bad copy:


Whether the left or right side is immaterial; both sides are dimensionally the same.
Like I said, do your home work like everyone else has to.
There are so many Baggis and KTMs that were converted to P30/34s , it must be possible to find photos galore.
I don't have nor ever had a Baggi or KTM. Nor do I want any enduro, so I have to do homework, too.

[cat]

Jose, if i remember correctly, you do need a different bracket. So there would be some Nissin calipers off Japanese bikes that would also be suitable - whatever you can get easily at a suitable price.

[amahoser]

I guess I am a bit confused. Are you now saying that a two piston caliper side by side can be called a four piston caliper? You originally stated that the Baghira has a 4 piston caliper and now you are saying that two pistons side by side has the same swept area as a four piston caliper. So are you saying that when I look at my caliper and I see only 2 pistons side by side I should refer to it as a four piston caliper?? So there is no confusion my front caliper is a two piston side by side and my rear caliper is a single piston.

And YES I have seen pictures Baggys with 30/34s but I don't know if there was any modifications done in order to fit them. SO my question still stands.

I'm sorry if I upset you or something. I thought I did my homework but for whatever reason you don't think I did.I cannot find any info that says that a 4 piston p30/34 will fit a baghira that has 2 pistons side by side WITHOUT modification. I am almost sorry I asked on this forum. Geez, next time I should just keep my questions to myself.

Jose Soriano

[amahoser]

Cat, thanks. I think I will go to my local dismantlers and see if I can find something that will work.

Jose Soriano

[cat]

I think if the Brembo calipers fit without any custom-made bracket then we would have seen more people using them. Some caliper brackets are quite simple, but they still have to be made, and if you don't know someone who would make it for you, what do you do? Try to find a machine shop / fabricator to make one for you? They won't be interested unless you pay $$$, which gets you wondering if it wouldn't be better to get a whole front end off some other bike and get the steering head to fit. And how much money do you want to put into an MZ? I have a habit of sinking money into nice parts for bikes but if i don't stop, i'll never have any money to retire on, so i'm trying to restrain myself. Put too much money into it, i'd have to wonder if it wouldn't have been better just to buy a good used KTM 525 or something and change the oil every couple weeks. Or an LC4.

[Meeners]

I guess I am a bit confused. Are you now saying that a two piston caliper side by side can be called a four piston caliper? You originally stated that the Baghira has a 4 piston caliper and now you are saying that two pistons side by side has the same swept area as a four piston caliper. So are you saying that when I look at my caliper and I see only 2 pistons side by side I should refer to it as a four piston caliper?? So there is no confusion my front caliper is a two piston side by side and my rear caliper is a single piston.

And YES I have seen pictures Baggys with 30/34s but I don't know if there was any modifications done in order to fit them. SO my question still stands.

I'm sorry if I upset you or something. I thought I did my homework but for whatever reason you don't think I did.I cannot find any info that says that a 4 piston p30/34 will fit a baghira that has 2 pistons side by side WITHOUT modification. I am almost sorry I asked on this forum. Geez, next time I should just keep my questions to myself.

Jose Soriano

Jose, I understand... I'm trying to find the same information but all the info that is around is dried up and/or a broken link, or in a different language. I understand your frustration, believe me. It's a little different for a Baghira... I just purchased a setup from a 1996-97 KTM 360 to see if the brembo bracket will fit our bikes, and to see if it can be a replacement. It's not the 4 piston p30/34 and it looks similar to what we have.

I will let you know what I find. If you want you can post in my thread to keep all the information in one place so people in the future can find it. I'm putting together a document that has all the baghira information I have found over searching for the last 6-8 weeks. As soon as I get some solid information on brake upgrades I will post it.

[amahoser]

Cat, that is exactly my problem. I don't want to start sinking too much money in this bike. If I can find a nice, reasonably pried alternate to the Grimeca caliper I would do that. If not, I'll wait for a used oem caliper to pop up. My Baghira is a fun little bike and I do not want to give up on it because parts are harder to find. But once you start modifying and fabricating, it becomes harder to justify.

If the Brembo is a direct bolt on, I'll pick up a used one... I'll try to find one at my local bike dismantlers.

Wish me luck!

Jose Soriano

[amahoser]

Meeners, thanks. Hopefully one of us will be able to find a solution. And Im not frustrated at the situation.. I knew the MZ was going to be a pain for parts when I bought it. I dove in with full knowledge of that. Im frustrated at the guy you keeps telling me to "Do your homework like everyone else has to."

Jose Soriano

[Bill Jurgenson]

I have copied my response from a private email exchange:

Any of the 11 or 12mm pumps from Brembo will Work and are definitely
much better.
PS11, PS12 or PS13
http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Brembo/Hand- ... 9_110.html
this is the german importer's page. You can look thru to see the
variety of available pumps. PS 16 and PSC 16 are not a good choice in
this case as they are for dual rotors. I use a PS12 on my Skorpion.
PS13 are by far the most common and thus the easiest to get off ebay.
For street use they are just as good but off road too grabby perhaps.
That is why the enduros normally have 11 or 12mm pumps: more lever
movement and softer pressure point so easier to control.
check in particular for KTM pumps at ebay since those guys often
upgrade to (totally unnecessary) radial pumps.

The caliper is of the floating variety:
http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/B ... 57565.html
http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Brembo/Brake ... :8532.html
I have no idea if this one fits, however. I have no experience with
Baghiras and Panthers apart from the motor. I do not like enduros.
What I do know is that the KTM fraction
http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Brembo/Brake ... 70352.html
also changes to Brembo P4s
http://www.stein-dinse.biz/Moto-Guzzi/B ... ::855.html
and there are milled adapters for that fork which is probably just
like the MZ Fork as far as the bolt pattern is concerned.
http://www.mz-riders.de/index.php/topic ... 1#msg55070
for the Baggi.
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7194/imgp36265en.jpg
not a P4, looks like a Beringer($$$).
you'll just have to do some homework.

checkt the threads on the banjo bolts on the Grimeca parts.
International standard is M10x1 which is also standard with Brembo,
tho they do make parts using M10x1,25 for japanese bikes. Do not force
the banjo bolts into Brembo parts. You will probably have to get new
ones in M10x1; you'll need new copper or aluminum seal rings anyway. For
the back, I very highly recommend using a Stahlbus bleeder
valve.
http://www.stahlbus.com/info/en/product ... t-overview

It is not necessary in front which is easy to bleed but for the rear,
it is absolutely great. Would not be without it.

[cat]

We need to find out which bikes have the same Marzocchi forks as the MZ Baghira.

[Bill Jurgenson]

no, you need to find out, which bikes use the same basic floating caliper, e.g. KTM and of course the bolt spacing which you can measure in your own garage.
Bolt spacings are standardized (just like hydraulic fittings - see the brake switch thread making a mountian of a mole hill).
As an example, the venerable P4 has 40mm, basically the first choice:
http://www.sd-tec.de/bilder/artikelpdf/20516558.pdf
compare the super bike version costing 10x as mucxh
http://www.sd-tec.de/bilder/artikelpdf/104814.pdf
but fits just the same.
The later ones with two cross pins 65mm:
http://www.sd-tec.de/bilder/artikelpdf/20680020.pdf
nlot a good choice at all
and the last cast version with 65mm
http://www.sd-tec.de/bilder/artikelpdf/20785010.pdf
a very good caliper indeed, much better than the previous one with 4 small individual pads and that visible solid bridge across the center, but needing an adaptor for the Skorpion, too.

the KTM floating caliper, the same as the Baggi:
http://www.sd-tec.de/bilder/artikelpdf/22555571.pdf
or BMW
http://www.sd-tec.de/bilder/artikelpdf/22555510.pdf

same caliper with each a different bracket.

the standard rear caliper:
http://www.sd-tec.de/bilder/artikelpdf/20516151.pdf

Here is a Baggi (online photo anyone could find) with Lucas caliper which is dimensionally like the P4 and with 40mm:

this what I mean by "doing your home work."

[Meeners]

Bill thank you for the nformation... The thing that sucks is we still have to do quite a bit of purchasing and playing around to figure this out I.e. it's not clear what we need to do to get the parts to fit correctly. Not complaining at all, it is what is. If someone has done it before, they definitely haven't shared their procedure.

What that means is we have to do a lot of purchasing, and buying the wrong parts to come to a solution, which were trying to avoid by searching and asking questions. But were getting all the same responses. I know it must be frustrating on the senior members here because it feels like they are reposting information that has been displayed before... But I can promise you I've searched to my physical extents. There is no solid info for the Baghira.

For instance, this guy below got it to work and I want to ask him what he did but he is long gone
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3616

Jose... Just buy the p4, or p30/34 and well get it to work... It's probably really easy... I'm gonna bite the bullet here and just buy it.

And whoever asked what forks are the same... I believe the 1996-97