Electronic Ignition

[akirasan]

Hi got a kit ready to put on my ETZ 250.

Looking for a dial gauge any recommendations please

Gary

[Puffs]

Buy what you like/can afford. Setting ignition requires no special accuracy, for that any will do.

For fixing the gauge in the head, I set it in an old spark plug from which the ceramic internals were removed & replaced by some wood. Before I inherited that dial gauge, I just used a calliper.

[akirasan]

all fitted very very easy to fit and runs great.

only £60 from ebay

[Puffs]

Well, that's a magnificent teaser Gary.

Can you please tell more, show pics please?? What dial gauge did you buy, and how was it so very very easy to fit? And in what way does it run better, and how did the dial gauge help in that?

If you want to use an open forum, then please share.

[akirasan]

eBay item number:
233478873087
for the ignition £65

and got the dial gauge from burwins £16

very easy instructions fitted the wire through the loom hole on the engine so tidy and will not
be cut by the chain.

disconnect green wire from points and remove points and condenser.
fit new ignition plate where the points were and connect coloured coded wires.

remove green wire from coil and connect new wires .

get the correct tdc and move the new timing plate and a light comes on the unit when it sparks.

So easy with the dial gauge and it started 2nd kick as usual.

while my points were still like new decided to fit the new ignition to save working on the bike

[Puffs]

Thanks!

My 251 is still on points and I'm still considering if I need an electronic ignition. In the way it will run I don't think there'll be much difference, it runs & starts well now too. Like you say, 2nd kick when cold (1st when warm, or if lucky).

Of course the big difference is that, after you have set it once, you do not have to re-adjust an electronic ignition, or do any other work on it. Points wear & burn-in, so that the timing changes and after a while it starts to run & start more poorly. Particularly in a sidecar outfit that is a big advantage, but that's not me. And I take that cover off to lube the chain anyway. And on long trips, the lower maintenance will also be an advantage.

The other difference is more stable timing at high revs: the timing of the mechanical points gets inaccurate at high revs, an electronic ignition should remain stable to much higher RPM. But a standard 250cc ETZ doesn't make much revs, not enough for that to become an issue.

My problem is that the original mechanical voltage regulator, as well as the rectifier, are starting to become unreliable with age & use. Replacing those would be beneficial. And also, I think that the tall & heavy standard generator rotor is a less desirable design. But ignition systems that also include the generator (like Vape) are quite a bit more expensive. Still thinking...

Anyway, for completeness my dial gauge fixation:

Dial gauge in modified plug.jpg (18.85 KiB) Viewed 18924 times

I actually rarely set (or check) the timing, if you get the gap between the points right, the timing is right too. Just a bit of sandpaper to clean them is often enough.

[Blurredman]

That is the same electronic ignition I have. I believe it's polish made - ‘Zaplon elektroniczny’

The guy in the UK just sells them on.

However.. Yes, it is very good I think. I bought one to replace the fact that the points on my 251 simply could not be set. There may have been crankshaft bend or something strange happening there - either way it doesn't matter as the engine has now been rebuilt- BUT.. I did not re-implement the points, I kept the electronic ignition.

This is a bike that I travelled for 10k miles with this electronic ignition, and to my memory have had no issues what so ever related to the item. Just remember to use appropriate spacing so that the magnet/rotor is the ideal distance from the sensor! The little LED to indicate sensoring of the magnet to time it is also extremely handy!

[Kruh]

Has anyone tried this ignition system?

http://www.wsk.audiobas.pl/sklep/zaplon ... azowe.html



Much cheaper than Vape. Its basically a 11 pole alternator from chinese gy6 engines modified to fit on the MZ.
It produces about 150W.


I'm actually thinking of buying the stator, magneto and a 2 stroke cdi/coil. And fitting it myself for even cheaper.

[Puffs]

Yes, 'zaplon' is Polish for 'ignition', and unreliable timing is the same issue I had on my Jawa 634. That used to have a similar RH-side construction, only with 2 sets of points (twin). I attributed the inaccuracy to the whole lot being too tall, with the breaker cam being screwed-on right at the end of the rotor, which is fitted via a taper onto the crankshaft. For that reason I gave that bike a Vape set, several years back. It works & has yet to give me any hassle.

They are OK, but I cannot believe how expensive those Vape sets have become (Vape = Powerdynamo = the original German MZ-B, who designed the system, subsequently sold the webshop to focus on their ignition, and then licensed the ignition to Vape): https://www.vape.eu/mz. That's €270, and by comparison that 479PLN = €112 sounds a lot more interesting. Thanks for that pointer Kruh!

Unfortunately they only indicate that three-phase charging set for the TS & ES - would you know if would mechanically fit the ETZ 250? Electrically, the ETZ's are specified at around 180W DC, but I don't think the 30W DC difference will be an issue. (In fact, if you run LED lights, even a generator capacity of 25W DC or less would easily suffice - and make the bike run 1% faster, giving +/-0.2HP extra to go into the gearbox.)

[Kruh]

It wouldn't fit, the ETZ stator mounting is different from the TS/ES.
However, there are more companies who make those ignitions fit.
Like this one:

http://turbozabytki.wskturbo.pl/pl/p/Ko ... 0251150/79

Again, it is the same GY6, 11 pole alternator. Here they don't even modify it; this company uses a adaptor for the magneto. Unlike the previous link, where they replace the centre part with a taper that fits the MZ. That way with one solid piece is supposedly better than the adaptor way. But I got absolutely no experience with any of those... Certantly an interesting way of making it work.

150W is more than enough. Even without the use of LED's and with a H4 bulb in the front.
Just for comparisson, the new Royal Enfield 650 bikes output 156W. And they have many more electronic components than an old MZ.

In fact, if you run LED lights, even a generator capacity of 25W DC or less would easily suffice - and make the bike run 1% faster, giving +/-0.2HP extra to go into the gearbox.

Not quite... A LED bulb for the headlight still uses about 20 - 30 W, add the taillight, break light, indicators and speedo lights and you need a bit of power.

[akirasan]

The guy I bought it off also doe 6v ignitions

gary

[Puffs]

Yes Kruh, I feared that much, different castings. But look at that - even cheaper, that's €103, or £86. That sure makes it interesting, considering you'll be independent of a battery, replace the tall generator stack and have an electronic ignition. Doubtlessly Chinese, but still - worth considering. Many thanks for that advice Kruh!

Yes, I can't quite see why you would need 180W (or 15A 14V 3-phase, as the original set is). The H4 unit in the 251 is 60W on high beam, +5W for the tail, +5W for the running light, +10W for the dash lights. Of course the original system also loads the ignition coil from the generator, I don't know what that takes, but it shouldn't be more than, say, 30W average. So that makes for 110W continuous load. Add a bit to charge the battery, and 120-130W should be ample. I know I don't count the brake & indicators, but those are used rarely so that their few Watt's of average load just comes from the battery charge.

Of course there are different kinds of LED lights, and some take more than others, depending on the technology used & how bright they are.
- I have a YZ250 with a wide ratio gearbox and a KTM headlight unit, and a few months back I bought a LED light for it. It's not H4, but a BA20d; normally those are 35/35 or 40/45W incandescent. I measured the LED I bought, it was 7/7W. Assuming it's equivalent to the 35/35W version, then a 55/60W H4 LED equivalent would make some 11/12W. It is a very bright bulb though, in output probably closer to a H4.
- Similarly, I measured an ETZ LED tail light unit at 0.2/0.1W. It has many separate LEDs, but together it replaces the standard 21/5W bulb. Fortunately this unit is not overly bright, yet I regret buying it as it is out of style - too modern.
- And I measured a direct replacement for the incandescent 12V 21/5W BA15d bulb at 1.3/0.3W.

I'd guess that on average LED-equivalents take at most roughly 10-20% of the power of the conventional incandescent lights they would replace. The conventional instrument lights might take more... Also, note that modern systems run the ignition totally independent of the charging system, so no extra load for that needs to be taken into account. Anyway, IMO the quoted generator capacity requirement of 25W DC for a carb bike with LED-only lights is fair. Of course in modern designs things like ABS/TC/ECU/Injection also take electrical power.

Now I accept that replacing incandescent --> LED is no real way to go faster - gaining 0.2HP is hardly noticeable. You'd actually gain slightly more by just switching your lights off completely.

Gary, your EI replaces the contact breaker, and often the electronics in it work fine at just 6V. The timing LED might not.

[akirasan]

Been out on the bike today and the EI works great.

Picks up much better and is more responsive in higher revs.

Totally recommend

[DAVID THOMPSON]

i have a 2004 vw bug and tow a trailer
had to use led bulbs in the trailer
the car was blowing fuses on the
tail and brake lamp
so had to cut the current draw
by putting in led bulbs
did not want to try bigger fuse
my 97 Nissan truck did the same

my 100 watt ham radio uses a 50 ah battery that’s in the trunk
and is charged from the accessory plug back there controlled to trickle charge it
the radio runs on the extra battery
the car computer goes nuts if i try to use the car battery to transmit
the radio allows me to talk to stations world wide and back home when i go out west

[Puffs]

So you drive 'round with a trailer as well as your 100W radio, which you run from an extra battery that is being charged from the accessory plug. Yes, I can understand your fuse to blow when you brake, with normal bulbs in the trailer. That's 42W extra then, if you use normal bulbs, and probably on the same fuse as that accessory plug.

Btw, I have a '07 Octavia (also VAG), and on long trips I often run an electric cool box on that accessory plug. The plug gets a little warm, but no real problems, and I have never run it in combination with a trailer.